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Missing Persons and Psychics: An Interview with Find Me Group Founder Kelly Snyder

Aug-08-22

Get an inside look into how I and many other psychic mediums help law enforcement and families find missing persons. Listen in as we chat with Kelly Snyder, a retired federal agent who is the founder of the Find Me Group. Kelly and his team are dedicated to assisting law enforcement and families in locating missing loved ones, assisting in solving homicides and identifiying victims of human trafficking. Learn more about the Find Me Group here.

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Transcript

1 (6s):
Welcome to spirited straight talk the podcast to help you thrive with the help of spirit. I'm Deb Shepard, psychic medium spiritual teacher and author. Each week. I bring new insights to help you heal from loss connect with spirit and turned setbacks into triumphs. So let's get started. Dana is here with me. We're so excited. We are having a fabulous guest here today that I don't know how long have we known Kelly? Couple years now, couple years, maybe year and a half years. But Kelly Snyder is a retired detective in law enforcement and we connected with him with his organization. That is a nonprofit. It is called find me.com the find me group.

1 (48s):
Yeah. And it is amazing what you do and how you help detectives all over the country and world and families. So I wanna introduce my friend here. Kelly Snyder. Do you wanna say hi to our audience please?

2 (1m 4s):
Yeah. I'm glad to be with you guys looking forward to telling me a little bit about the group.

1 (1m 10s):
So let's start a little bit, just a little background about how you became a detective, how you decided to go on the law enforcement and where was this?

2 (1m 19s):
Well, I was in Hawaii working at the Holly Kalani hotel. I was the executive assistant manager there, and every once in a while, the secret service would come in with dignitaries and I got to meet secret service agents one specifically, and he talked me into joining the secret service. So I took the test and did all of that. And just about two months before I was supposed to go to the academy, this, the secret service had a hiring freeze. So my question was to them, they said, I could either wait for another academy or go to the academy and pick another treasury agency. So I selected the customs agency service.

2 (1m 59s):
And then once I got out of the academy, they put me into narcotics enforcement and I just fell in love with working narcotics, cuz it was exciting and basically gave me a purpose. I, you know, originally as a junior agent, you know, you think you're going to save the world. But then my boss basically sat me down and explained to me that it's, you're putting your foot in a bucket of water, taking it out and see how much water's displaced. He said, that's how important you're going to be to the drug world. But regardless of him trying to settle me down a little bit, I just wanted to do the best I could.

2 (2m 39s):
And I ended up in a career of 25 years of putting about 4,000 people in prison. So I got pretty good. I yeah, made about four years after I was with customs. I joined the drug enforcement administration and, and stayed with them until I, I retired. So it was pretty exciting and then wanted to work with children in some capacity. So when I moved to Arizona, a friend of mine who was also retired, DEA was with a national center for missing and exploited children. And he asked if I'd like to join that, which I did.

2 (3m 20s):
And I was with the national center for three years.

1 (3m 25s):
Thank you for being of service. And the one thing about you that I've noticed. And I can, I can tell you that Dana can back this up. You are a hundred percent heart. It's all about getting that child back, finding out the details, getting the perpetrator. I mean, you are so dedicated. It's not about just the glory, but it's, that's not about you at all. It's all about getting the job done. And it's been always an honor to work with you because your intuition and I also wanna talk a little bit about you then started bringing in mediums and psychics. How did that start? Because that's a rarity in your profession.

2 (4m 1s):
Well, how

1 (4m 1s):
Did you become a believer? Well,

2 (4m 5s):
It's really sort of a, a, a simplistic story. I mean, one day, for whatever reason, I'm assuming it's got something to do with God pushing me in that direction. I wanted to know if the psychic phenomena was real or it was bullshit. And so I asked a friend of mine if he knew psychics. And ultimately my wife knew someone and I contacted that individual, went to a meeting that they were having with a couple of other psychics in the group. And the lady that I met, her name was Jackie Kranz. She said, yeah, it it's real. It works. But only about 60% of the time.

2 (4m 45s):
And she said, if you're talking to someone or meeting them face to face or on the phone, the psychic world can be almost a hundred percent, if not totally a hundred percent accurate. But when you have someone missing and all you have is a name and a photograph, and the last place that person was seen, then you really do have to have the psychic ability because then you're working with almost nothing to find out what happened and where that person is at this very moment. And so that's literally how it happened. And she, she made a statement to me. She said, if any psychic ever tells you that they're a hundred percent accurate doing missing person cases turn around and walk the other way, cuz there is no such animal.

1 (5m 31s):
I, I totally agree.

2 (5m 33s):
The best you can expect from a psychic. The best in the world is 65% accuracy doing what we do. So literally I give the name of the person missing. And of course we work homicides, also the name of the person that's missing or murdered and then a photograph. And then the last place the missing person was seen. And that's all that the psychics in the group get. And then I tell them, let me know what happened and where is that person right now?

1 (6m 4s):
What I noticed with you, Kelly is you just take all the information. You don't judge it, you just take it in and allow all of us to do the work the way it works for us. And you are correct. Sometimes you're not gonna be right on, or you're not gonna connect with that individual or the situation, but you really have brought in something out there. That's not as available. I think our, our detectives do not use this source and we do it for nothing. We just give it back to our community. And so there's no risk for anyone out there that is asking for this kind of help. Do you find that it helps in the work you do with other detectives that maybe not as, not as sure about this or families they're, they're like, I'm not really sure about working with these psychics.

2 (6m 52s):
Well, no, they, the, the families of course are believers and, or they wanna believe because most people don't realize that the police are not required to look for a missing person unless that person is under the age of 12 or under the age of 13. And most people in the world think police will go looking for their loved one. And that is just not true. Wow. And it it's a sad state of affairs, but if there's extenuating circumstances, like the person that's missing said, they're gonna go kill themself or harm someone or do some damage or commit a crime or they have a medical condition.

2 (7m 33s):
Then the police will open up a missing person case, which they do anyway. But then they'll actively search for that individual. Usually two or three days, if you're really lucky, you'll get a week out of them. But after a week, if they don't have any leads and haven't found anything, then they'll end it. And then just hope that they're a BOLO or the NCI C alert. You know, we'll find the individual or a hunter depending on you know, where the person went missing. But that is, and I have no clue where this 13 years old came from, but one police officer told me, he said, that's the average age of a, of a child to run away is the age of 13.

2 (8m 18s):
So that may have been white police departments use that as their, their norm as to whether they'll work on a case. But if the child is 12 years old, then they bring out the national guard and everyone, they can get to try to find that child. But if you're 13, then you're considered an endangered runaway. And that's exactly what the title is from the national center for missing and exploited children. If you open up their website, almost every single child, it'll say endangered runaway.

1 (8m 50s):
Wow. Wow. Okay. So I didn't know that. Interesting. And do you feel like the detectives, I mean, do the families connect with the fine we group or does a detective or a combination?

2 (9m 2s):
Well, originally it was, it was all families, but then as we started being successful and currently we have located 116 people, but once we started getting successful and then once we were successful with local police departments here in Arizona and then built a report with them, then we would get calls back from those particular police departments all the time. And currently the, one of the cases we're working right now is a case outta Mojave county Sheriff's department here in Arizona. And that's a case that I just assigned a day or two ago, and it's a young boy that's missing and has been missing for quite some time, but it doesn't matter to the psychic world.

2 (9m 46s):
And it really doesn't matter to a search dog how far, or how long this person has been missing. And so hopefully the psychics will come back with some information that may give the police department a location where they can go and start searching again with either our dogs from the Arizona search track and rescue or their own cadaver dogs or search dogs.

1 (10m 14s):
And so 116 recoveries or cases closed, closed, correct. All solved

2 (10m 20s):
Cases, cases that we provided information. And then when the information came back after the person was located, we would compare what the police were telling us as to the facts of the case. And then we'd compare it with the information we provided and it's either a case we solved or resolved and that's 116.

1 (10m 42s):
Wow. That is that's

3 (10m 44s):
Fabulous. What are some of the most interesting, just like one or two of the most interesting cases that you guys have solved or one that two that stand out to you?

2 (10m 57s):
Yeah, the, probably the, the two that are somewhat close to me, both of which were located here in Arizona. One was Marcy Randolph, a young lady that her and her boyfriend jumped on a private airplane and went up to Sedona to go and have breakfast. And they were gonna go to the Sedona airport and about six miles out, they were on radar. And I don't think they have a tower there, but you can still voice that you're coming in. And then of course you're coming in from a certain direction. So it's pretty much VFR all the way in about six miles out.

2 (11m 39s):
They went off radar and anyway, gave it to the psychics. And 26 psychics came back and said that she had crashed. The airplane had crashed. And it was in Oak Oak Creek canyon, I believe is the name of the, of the canyon. And so we searched that area. I personally went in an airplane with the father who was a pilot on numerous occasions and a total of 12 flights personally that I went on and we could not find this airplane. We went to the BLM and to fish or to forest service to see if there was any report of a crash or a loud thunder sound from any hikers in the, in the general vicinity.

2 (12m 25s):
And they checked their computer and there was nothing there. And then we searched with the dogs in places where the psychic said that we thought that the plane had crashed, but of course we didn't find any debris. We didn't find, you know, the people that were missing. So interesting enough, the family contacted a detective that was extremely good in locating missing aircraft. And he came to us and asked us for our information. We provided everything we had. And then he asked if we had gone to BLM and forest service, which we stated we did. And he said, do you don't mind if I go back to them and see if they missed something?

2 (13m 7s):
And I said, heck no. You know, do what you gotta do. So he went back and sure as hell they were in the process, the day we were there of moving. And about three days after we were there, they actually physically moved into a new facility and they only had one computer working. Well, the information had come in from two hikers where they heard a loud thunder sound and they were headed in the direction of the sound to see what, what created that sound and that never got into the computer until three days after we had interviewed them. So this, this expert goes to this particular area where the, the hikers had gone and he interviewed the hikers again and sure as hell, they took him to a specific mountain and said, this is where we heard the crash.

2 (14m 3s):
And then we saw a little bit of smoke. It took him about two and a half hours to get to this particular mountain from where they were. And once they got to the mountain, they said that they saw a little bit of smoke, but no debris and nothing. And then the mountain was covered in, in trees. It, it was a forest area. So he got the Coconino county Sheriff's department search and search and rescue, and they brought their helicopter in and the airplane was wedged inside the side of a mountain in a CVOs. They couldn't see it from the helicopter and they couldn't see it from the ground. But when the search and rescue Sheriff's deputies went into the mountain and climbed the mountain and they found the airplane.

1 (14m 44s):
Wow, that's amazing. So 20, 26 psychics knew where it was. It was just correct.

2 (14m 50s):
And well, they all had said the 26th had said it was in Oak Creek canyon, but then the closest person was a gentleman by the name of Chris Robinson. He was literally about, about 500 feet away from where the airplane crashed. And then he actually gave the name of the mountain, but we didn't know that was the name of the mountain at the time. And that's,

1 (15m 13s):
That's, that's really incredible.

2 (15m 15s):
Well, yeah. And he's, he's been in the business for, I'm guessing about 45, 50 years. He's from England and his, his name has been for 40 years, the psychic detective written about six or eight books. He had a television show. He worked for hero majesty Scotland yard and, and hero Majesty's custom service and was literally under contract with these two federal agencies for years as, and he was helping them with the IRA at the time that they were having issues with that.

3 (15m 56s):
Wow, that's incredible. He's

1 (15m 58s):
Incredible.

2 (15m 59s):
And he's, he's still in the group. He was one of the first members of the group.

1 (16m 3s):
What I like is giving closure to these families, cuz that's what every family wants. They just wanna have closure and they understand most likely that person has they're deceased, they've crossed over, but being able to have closure and understand and to bring their families home, I think is the key to this type of work.

3 (16m 22s):
Yeah.

2 (16m 23s):
Yeah. The, the thing is, you know, I had a father and, and this was the same thing is the Marcy Randolph's parents came very close with them because we were literally searching at least once or twice a month with the dogs and or with an airplane and you get very close to them and, and they, most parents will say, I, I can go through the rest of my life if I know where my daughter or my son is and I can bury that person. But if, I don't know if they're dead or alive, it just eats away at 'em like you wouldn't believe. And then yeah, another gentleman we found here, his name was Willie jig. The father said, I can't go the rest of my life without knowing if he's dead or alive.

2 (17m 7s):
He said, if he's deceased, then I'll bury him and I can visit him at his grave site, but I just can't go the rest of my life without not knowing. And of course the same day, he said that to me is when we found him.

3 (17m 20s):
Wow. Was that the young guy that was had the Jeep?

2 (17m 24s):
No, this was one. His name was Willie Jibo. He was a student at Arizona state university. Okay. And he got pretty well loaded and was drinking all night and no one wanted to take him home. And he only had to go about a quarter of a mile to his dormitory or his apartment, whatever it was. But he had to cross the Tempe town lake on a bridge. And we're just guesstimating that he was either leaning over the bridge vomiting or doing whatever and then fell in the search track and rescue dogs. When we searched the lake, we found him or actually found an area we thought he might be. And then the Tempe town, the Tempe police department came in with their dive team and located him the next day.

3 (18m 11s):
Wow.

1 (18m 11s):
And it's tragic stuff too. These, when you send us these photos of these individuals, you just look at their entire life and how these things come about, but you just wanna help people tie up those issues and those questions, they had one thing I think people are gonna ask. And I know I went through this with your organization is how do other mediums or psyches apply or what, what's the thing that you put them through, test them to make sure that they can actually be part of this organization.

2 (18m 41s):
Well, yeah. And the testing, we started that in 2010, because we were working with the Austin, Texas police department on a case. And the detective, we were trying to give him a location where we thought this missing person was. And he said, well, how do you test and how do you vet your psychic in the group? And I said, well, we don't. I said, you know, they're, they're vetted by this simple fact that they're in the group for a year or two. And, and you know, they basically have a track record that they keep because we don't keep a scorecard on, on the psychics in the group. We do know when a case is solved. I do ask every psychic in the group to send me all of their accuracies.

2 (19m 22s):
And then we put that on the spreadsheet. But once again, I don't keep track of it. I do know that Dr. Dave Campbell and some of the people that have been in the group from its inception of 21 years, this coming November, I know that he's incredibly good at what he does. And there's probably 30 members in the group that are accurate about 50 to 60% of the time. So yeah, I know about these, but I just don't keep a scorecard, but an answer to your question, it's it just basically people doing what they do with all their different skill levels and provide the information.

2 (20m 3s):
And then,

3 (20m 4s):
Cause I remember the process, you know, Deb had to do the testing with you to work with the organization. And I think one of the cases recently was solved. You sent some information about it. It was a case up here in Colorado, Dylan, red wine, you guys worked on that, trying to find his, his young body and soul that his father had murdered him.

2 (20m 28s):
And then, you know, like, like we started out with the question, you know, the testing, we have five cases that we present and they're either gonna be right or wrong, but it's basically a learning curve for people just to get an idea of how we do the cases. And then, you know, whether they get 'em right, right or wrong, it really doesn't matter. I still let them into the group. And then I do tell almost every psychic and I'm pretty sure I told Deb the same thing. If you're wrong, 20 or 30 times in a row, then you need to go look in the mirror cuz chances are, you're not psychic. And, but I said, but we don't kick anyone out of the group. The only reason anyone is removed from the group is if they violate our code of ethics and our policies and procedures that are in place.

2 (21m 15s):
And, and that's the only reason, I think only three people have been removed from the group since its inception of almost 21 years ago.

1 (21m 24s):
Wow. And what I like is how each of us get different information in a different way. I know that the way I work is getting a lot of the emotional part or the empathic feeling of the individual or what happened. And you're good with, however, the data comes in, where I've worked with other situations and detectives where they're asking questions that may not come through for me. And you're looking for as much data and information to combine it, to solve the case, which is really beautiful. Yours said, what do we need? What do we need to get? Let's put it all out there. And I think that helps for most of us to fill a bit of freedom versus feeling the fear or getting it wrong. And so our goal too, is to help support you in the organization to have these cases solved.

1 (22m 7s):
So you, you really make it good, but I'm glad I also went through the process of getting vetted because I think that's important for other people in there to, to be accepted, to realize yeah. That it's important to have that respect and ethics as well.

2 (22m 20s):
Well, yeah. And, and even though the process itself is legitimate for the testing, it's just in my humble opinion, it's, it's not really necessary, but it's always good to say, yes, we test everyone and we vet everyone. But the truth is all of the psychics in the group can come and go as they please there's no, you know, time requirement that you have to stay in the group. And then everyone has jobs and everyone has families and everyone has health issues. And everyone has everything that, you know, the world throws as is as at us daily. And you know, with that in mind, when I do assign a case, I hardly ever get more than 60 responses.

2 (23m 4s):
Even though I have 117 psychics in the group. And that's just because of what I just mentioned, everyone has things that they do weekly or daily or, or monthly that get in the way. So I just ask everyone to work on the cases they can and then if they, they can't, then they don't. So it's right. It's actually working out pretty good because if all 117 responded on each and every case, then I would be buried because I'm the only one that does the reports.

1 (23m 36s):
Yeah. Well, that's what I was gonna ask you. I mean, you were retired law enforcement, you know, with the, the government and you're doing this in your extra time to serve, to give back to your communities. What is the best thing that you get from doing this? I mean, I'm obviously helping families, but how do you feel when you see these cases still? And you're working with people, what get keeps you going?

2 (23m 60s):
Well, you know, even when I get frustrated because I'm overwhelmed and I've got so many cases walking in the door and everyone wants to be first, but that's not how it works. That's based on when the case comes in. The only time I make an exception is if it's a child and it's a person that's gone missing just recently and we have the opportunity to find them alive. That's the only time I'll shove a case in front of everything else. But for the most part, right now, I'm sitting on approximately 30 cases that we haven't assigned yet. And you know, I try to help the police as much as I can and shove cases in front if I can, but I try to treat everyone equally.

2 (24m 46s):
But of course, if your daughter's missing or your son is missing, then you want to be first and you don't wanna wait. Yeah. And so it's just, it's just a matter of, you know, right now we're overwhelmed with cases and we're not looking for more, but we will never, ever turn a case away.

1 (25m 6s):
So is a lot of your cases, do you feel are from sex trafficking? I know that there's an issue here, especially in Colorado, but do you find they're just all over the board or do you find that there's a higher number of a certain type of case?

2 (25m 21s):
No, it's mostly just people missing that go somewhere and then never to be seen again, whether it's their hiking or whether they went to a friend's house. We had a couple of cases in the last month where two individuals totally separate, totally separate states, went to visit a friend, never to be seen again. Now one of them was going to a friend's house where we know for sure that the people in the house were a bunch of drug dealers and drug users. So chances are this missing individual got wrapped up in something, you know, either because he wanted to, or, or just because of circumstance.

1 (26m 2s):
I remember this case.

2 (26m 3s):
Yeah. It's, it's just a matter of, you know, almost every case is similar to a degree on a missing person case, but an answer to your question about, you know, the human trafficking aspect, it's still a missing person case. And then of course, if the police will share with me that they think it is a human trafficking investigation, I still don't pass that on to the members because it's a missing person. All we care about is finding out if that person is still alive. And where is that person? Then? About three years ago, maybe four years ago, we actually worked a case where we, we know that the woman was put into human trafficking by the country that she was sent back to and her brothers were in the military.

2 (26m 55s):
And normally I would never provide information to the family. But in this case I did to the brothers and what the government individuals didn't know along with the criminals that put her into human trafficking is she had smuggled a cell phone in and she kept that cell phone and would send texts. And then we would pick up on the texts and then tried to zero in on the ping from that text because the military guys had the ability to ping the phone. So they were kicking in brothels for about a month until they found her.

1 (27m 34s):
Wow, that's incredible. And that's yeah, that's like, and I understand not telling families when I've worked before I worked with you is if there was, what are these cases? I always said, I'll work with the detectives, but not the family, cuz you're concerned about them doing things that will end up losing a case or messing up a site, anything like that, doing things that they're not legally able to do. And I think that's hard for families too. And the detective isn't willing to work with people in my field.

2 (28m 2s):
I profess well, yeah. And that's the, that's the, the biggest negative from police departments is do you want to get one report and I'm providing you 30 pieces of information from 30 separate psychics or would you rather talk to 30 separate psychics? Most police departments hate the fact that they're receiving psychic information because how do they know if they're any good or whether they're whack jobs or right. They just have no clue what kind of they, I, I,

1 (28m 34s):
Yeah, I remember a case. I remember a case here. There was a little boy in a pond or he was missing and I told Dana, I said, I think they're gonna find him in the pond. Part of the ethics that we have is, you know, reporting this and then thinking that we had something to do with it. So you have to really be careful unless you work with someone that already has that relationship with you, that, you know, we could have called you. And you said, okay, this is what my psychic said versus them thinking that we're involved in the situation too.

2 (29m 3s):
Right. And then the information I'm providing to the police is every single psychic has their own paragraph. And I'm providing stuff that they have, the information they've provided to me. I extract it and then put it in a separate police report. And then basically the way I'm writing it, it's almost impossible for a police officer to look at it and then not actually read it. And then I explain it to him, you know, you've only got about 10 or 15 minutes out of your life to read my report. Maybe something in there is going to enhance what you're already working on or it parrots and is identical to what you already know.

2 (29m 45s):
And I said, so, you know, and then if you don't wanna read it, throw it in the trash, I'm just gonna move on to the next case. But then I tell the parents, the police have the report. I can't share anything with the family, but the police can share everything and that's up to them. They're the ones that have to deal with the sensitivity and the confidentiality of the information. Right.

1 (30m 9s):
Right. Yeah. So you recently said a CA sent a case over, it's a, I can't give the name out, but it's a young, unless I can. I mean, what's the,

2 (30m 18s):
Yeah, it's not, it's not an issue. It's, it's a public case that has been around for quite some time. And the police have been working on it ever since this young boy went missing and his name is Saul.

1 (30m 34s):
Jason. Yeah. Jason Saul. And he is what it looks like about 15 or 18 years. How old is this kid?

2 (30m 46s):
I think when he went missing, he was 17, but I'm not sure I don't have the information in front of me. Okay. But he was pretty young.

1 (30m 53s):
Yeah.

2 (30m 54s):
And that, that was a photograph that was enhanced based on his age when he went missing. And I think that was enhanced to the age of 18 or 17.

1 (31m 7s):
Okay.

2 (31m 7s):
And he, his vehicle, he was out looking for crystals or, you know, some kind of rock formations that he collected. And

1 (31m 19s):
He's one of us psychics. My first feeling about the kid is this was an unexpected passing. Yeah. I I'm, I'm not feeling he's still with us physically. Does that make sense for you, Kelly?

2 (31m 34s):
Well, yeah. I mean, he's been missing for, I think little over 20 years.

1 (31m 40s):
Oh my goodness. Okay.

2 (31m 41s):
I, I mean, that's, you know, that's something that I normally don't provide to the psychics. I don't want to do any front loading. Right.

1 (31m 48s):
That's why

2 (31m 49s):
I just give them the bare bones of the information. Here's the kids' photo. Here's his date of birth, time of birth and place of birth. Here's where he was last seen. And tell me what happened and where is he right now?

1 (32m 1s):
So I'm gonna go in and check the longitude and latitude you gave, because I feel like he's still not far from there.

2 (32m 9s):
Yeah. I mean, it was, it was during the middle of the night. So, you know, whether they had flashlights or

1 (32m 16s):
Okay. So I feel like I have a, an impact to my head in my chest or a, you know, I feel like there's something broken or a impact. Do you know if this area was Rocky at all?

2 (32m 30s):
Yeah. The whole area is not mountainous, but you know, Rocky Hills and CVOs and different areas and not cliffs necessarily, but yeah. Area.

1 (32m 41s):
Yeah. I feel Roger area.

2 (32m 43s):
His vehicle was, was, you know, in the mud was in a, was in a wash area. And there's tons of those in the, in the desert, which is pretty much the kind of area and the kind of topography that he was dealing with. He was with another kid

3 (33m 3s):
Before you give anything else before you give anything else, let's see what Deb gets. Okay.

1 (33m 9s):
The first thing I get is this was not like foul play, like someone trying to murder him. I really feel like this was more of an accident, but I, I feel like he was alive but died at the scene. Would, would that fit any, well, you probably don't know anything about this yet, but I feel like he was like caught or injured where he couldn't rescue himself or if there's a head injury or something, not understand how to, but did they did the two of them get separated? Is that what happened? As

2 (33m 40s):
Far as you know? Yeah. They were both walking to try to get to civilization. They were about a mile and a half away from civilization. They were, you know, in this desert area. And the other kid that was with him got tired. He said he wanted to rest. And then Jason kept going. Never to be seen again.

1 (34m 0s):
Yeah. I feel, I don't feel like there's foul play. I don't feel like the other kid was involved. I definitely see a separation. I will look at the map, but I feel like he went more east, I think is the feeling I'm getting east where I feel like there may have been some rugged area, but I feel like he was injured or something where he then succumbed to his injuries is what I'm getting here. And I feel like there's a, an area that maybe rocks were kind of bent over a little bit where you wouldn't be able to see somebody. Or like we said about the plane, like these trees or something, or plants covering him a little bit. But I feel like maybe there was a, a broken neck, a broken something in the head.

1 (34m 42s):
And I see a wrist and twisted ankle where I feel like he failed. And if the other kid was so exhausted, it could have been that. He was also, Jason was dehydrated exhausted and losing his way. And I also feel at the time there wasn't either a, a lit, like a strong moon or strong stars. Cause I don't see a lot of light from the sky. I see it being either a little overcast or darker. And so probably check the weather at that time. But I'm seeing like I'm not seeing the shadows or, you know, when you, when you have sunlight or Moonlight, what you can see shadows, I'm not seeing shadows,

2 (35m 20s):
Right? Yeah. This was, they got stuck at around eight o'clock and started walking around eight 30 and you know, who knows how long they walked, but the, the other gentleman did finally make it out the next morning, but Jason was never found and there's never been any follow up.

1 (35m 42s):
And it feels like he tried to backtrack a little bit too.

2 (35m 46s):
Well, yeah. I mean the smart move, but then these are young kids that don't, you know, know anything about the wilderness obviously is that you never leave your vehicle.

1 (35m 56s):
And the other thing, I don't feel like they're, they're fully equipped to be in this place, in the, in the, in the desert or wherever they are. I don't feel like they're even equipped with whether it's water packs or shoes. I feel like they're not really packed to be able to do this kind of track where they were going.

2 (36m 14s):
Yeah. They, they didn't go in there with the thought process of walking out. So obviously you're right. And then the kid that did survive said that they both had about a half a bottle of water each,

1 (36m 28s):
Not enough.

2 (36m 29s):
Yeah. You know, they didn't, they didn't share water. They just, you know, kept the water that they had. And then once they got separated, who knows what happened to Jason?

1 (36m 39s):
Okay. I'll go look at the map and see if I can get a better idea of that area, because that's really what you're looking for. And what's interesting about the plane is all these psychics have the location, but it was, how do you go deeper into it? And it feels like in Jason's case, it's very similar of where's he hidden underneath. And of course you've got wild animals and other things in there with the weather and, but the bones and stuff can still be found.

2 (37m 4s):
So right. And this, this was total wilderness. I mean, this was not, you know, like just a hop, skipping, a jump off the main freeway. This was about a mile and a half in to a really rough, you know, and you're not driving on roads. You're driving on basically the desert ground. Okay. Just to get back to where these crystals or whatever they were looking for.

1 (37m 27s):
And I'm not even seeing like a Creek or water or anything like that. So I'm not seeing where a lot of times people will walk along or go try to find that. And I'm not seeing that either there,

2 (37m 38s):
No. The only thing that was in the area where these washes from when they would have, you know, down, you know, rainfall that would create the wash. Okay. That's all that was in that area. And that is where the vehicle got stuck was within the wash.

1 (37m 53s):
Well, I will make sure I get the information and fill out the report and, and maybe we can at least give the family some closure with this and a sense of peace too. Is there anything that you wanna say to our listeners to help them in these situations? Like what can they do or what advice do you tell them if they're working with their detectives or the police department that would help them in their situation?

2 (38m 19s):
Well, the police aren't gonna like my response, but what I tell, what I tell parents is if you have a child that's missing and they're under the age of 18, just literally lie to the police and give them fake information about health issue or the fact that they were gonna go harm themself. If you want the police to look for your child. And the reason I say that is by lying to the police, filling out a report, that's falsified, it's a $250 fine. And it's a misdemeanor. But the point I'm trying to make is we get called or asked to look for these individuals usually a month, if not three to four months, if not years after the police have dealt with them.

2 (39m 4s):
And like I say, the police aren't gonna like my response, but the whole thing here is they're all, all they're going to do is list the child is missing and then enter a BOLO and an N C I C. Now, if the individual is over the age of 18, you can still bullshit the police. But essentially if it's an adult, they're not looking for this adult at all, unless they know that they're gonna go kill themselves or harm someone or do something that's gonna cause a crime of hurting someone. Just anything like that is the only reason they'll look.

2 (39m 45s):
Right. So,

1 (39m 46s):
But it was like

2 (39m 46s):
With that in mind,

1 (39m 48s):
The case you were doing with the girl that was killed in Utah and he was found in Florida, I'm trying to think the campers. Yeah. You worked on that case too. Kelly.

2 (39m 59s):
Yeah. What was the name on that one?

1 (40m 0s):
I'm trying to think of her name, but she was in Utah. They were camping in the, in the van

2 (40m 5s):
Where they found the male after he killed the girl. Is that the one you're talking about? Yes.

1 (40m 10s):
Matter of fact, Brian laundry, Brian,

2 (40m 14s):
One of our members was 60 feet from where they found his body.

1 (40m 19s):
I think that's amazing. Wow. Yeah. And this is the good work you're doing. And I think what's, it's sad to talk about these missing children and, and things that have happened to them. But the same time, Kelly, you're making a difference in so many lives. And it's good to know that there are people like yourself that are willing to organize and put yourself on the line, put your neck out there and support people like me that do this work. So we're very grateful in our communities that you are finding what works and you're blending it together with your background and all of ours to, to give closure. So we thank you with that so much.

2 (40m 54s):
Well, yeah, and I, I wish there were 500 other agencies just like ours,

1 (40m 59s):
And maybe we will create that. Maybe that's

2 (41m 1s):
Maybe this hope. Well, there was an agency, a retired law enforcement officer in Florida that had a search and rescue group with dogs and, and ATVs. And I think horses. And he was trying to create a group. I don't know if it ever materialized, but that was the book that I wrote was a how-to, here's what we do. And here's how you can do the same thing. And the only, you know, the only codal to my book that most people don't do when they have search and rescue groups is having the psychics in the group. But what's the name of this, my humble opinion. What a great way to cheat.

1 (41m 41s):
Absolutely.

2 (41m 42s):
Yeah. You know, why spend two months investigating something when I can have someone tell me what happened.

1 (41m 47s):
Right, exactly.

3 (41m 48s):
So the book is the, find me group the who, what, when and how the team solves missing person and homicide cases.

2 (41m 56s):
Correct.

3 (41m 57s):
And so that book

1 (41m 60s):
Can,

3 (42m 1s):
Can help other agencies begin or even maybe law enforcement with some tips.

2 (42m 6s):
Oh yeah. I mean, it's literally how we solved the cases up until the book was published. I mean the same concept. I mean, we've improved things that we've done in the past. We've improved some of those things. We created an artificial intelligence system to the tune of $126,000. And that particular in artificial intelligence has actually narrowed down the search grid. We just had a member just recently join the group that has these abilities because I certainly don't, he's gonna start helping us keep the data up updated. Wow. And then start using our software to try to narrow down the search grid of where the person went missing.

3 (42m 52s):
Wow.

1 (42m 52s):
And that's the great thing. I remember a case years ago that was here in Colorado and I said, this is a serial killer. And that's when agencies were not sharing information and the DNA, wasn't where it was today. And now this person that is the perpetrator is now in a Nevada prison serving for being a serial killer. So sometimes it's just the amount of time and the patients that people have. But now that we have technology, the way it is, it's certainly gonna hopefully move these cases with more speed.

2 (43m 24s):
Well, yeah, I mean the whole thing here is, you know, police departments use informants, most of which you can't trust because they were criminals before they became informants. Because usually when you get an informant, it's someone you've arrested and then they don't want to go to prison for a hundred years. So they start cooperating. Right? Well, the whole idea here is you're Tor. You're trusting an informant that committed crimes, why not trust a psychic that hasn't committed a crime just wants to do the right thing. And, but once again, police departments do not want, you know, 500 psychs calling them.

1 (44m 3s):
Kelly does, but not, not anyone else. Well, you have a system we don't call you. We actually, you know, send

2 (44m 8s):
Information. Yeah. You're sending the information in an email on our investigation report. Some people send it in an email. Some people use the report. The whole idea from the form itself is that everything on the investigation form that you're filling out is everything the police departments want and need for their investigation. So what I tell the members is try to fill out every single category, but if you can't just leave it blank.

1 (44m 35s):
Yeah. Which is what we do. Well, I really believe this is gonna be a lot of interest from our listeners. So I hope that you don't mind us having you back on at a later date because I think this is something that people wanna know that is available or that it's possible in what you're doing to, to solve these cases. Would that be okay?

2 (44m 56s):
No, that'd be fine. And you know, just so the listeners understand that we're buried in cases and we're not looking for cases, but we would never turn one away. So with that said just, you know, have them patient. Yeah. I mean, you know, they, people just have to be patient because every family wants us to work on their case first. And that's just something we can't do. We have to do it in order of priority. And, and in order of when the case came in.

1 (45m 27s):
Well, thank you again, Dana, do you have anything to say other than this was

3 (45m 31s):
Other than, yeah. Other than it's super, I mean, it's very interesting what you do is interesting and it's, it's cool to know that, that you are creating kind of a guideline for others to do this type of partnership with mediums and psychics. Yeah. So

2 (45m 49s):
Yeah, what I would really love to see is that every police department in the world find one or 10 psychics they can work with on a regular basis. Whatever. I agree, whatever number they come up with that they're comfortable with, but just, you know, it's hard to shut the door on everyone that wants to provide information. But once again, try to do it in, in a similar fashion. Like we do it where you're giving it to a group and you're receiving it all from that group. And then you decipher the information to see what the police departments want. And then if they're embedded in your police department, then the information's right there.

3 (46m 27s):
Right? Yeah, exactly.

1 (46m 29s):
Well, I just so much enjoy you, Kelly. I know Dana and I, whenever we have a connection or we get a new case, my energy starts schooling up. So thank you again for taking the time and joining us here on spirit and straight talk. Thank you.

2 (46m 42s):
Had a pleasure. Thanks for asking.

1 (46m 46s):
Thank you for listening to today's episode. I hope it inspired you. If you enjoyed our conversation, make sure you subscribe so that you get notified of new episodes and let's get connected. Visit Deb she.com for more insights, support workshops and a book session with me. And finally, always remember your loved ones in spirit are just a thought away, even though they're on the other side, they're always by your side.